. >> two decades after michael melkin went to prison, it's still in the headlines and proliferating. latest time profiler to be tainted is steven cohen. >> it still brings up the e the larger issue in whether or not the rewards of cheating is worth the risks. we have clinical psychologist wendy walsh and ron gethner. great to have you both on. wendy i want to ask you first of all why do some people in wall street cheat? what do you think is going on in their minds in their face of potentially being prosecuted? >> well, first of all they're getting an exciting rush of dopamine in their brains no different than a shoplifter would. and they analyze their risks and rewards. the risks to them is minimal. because it is not prosecuted enough. every once in awhile there's a high profile person like martha stewart convicted and the rest of the time they go unnoticed. >> i would argue against that actually. >> i know, ron. "new york times" says the risk to reward is highly calculated and they go toward that risk feeling that the reward is going to be worth it. you don't buy that, do you? >> no